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There's a new PA degree in town, and its name is "Doctor."

The U.S. Army and Baylor University have created the first clinical doctorate degree for PAs. Army PAs will receive a doctor of science physician assistant (DScPA) degree after successfully completing an 18-month residency in emergency medicine at Brooke Army Medical Center at Fort Sam Houston in San Antonio.

The first four DScPAs will graduate in a few weeks, followed by a fifth in early 2008. Eight more Army PAs began the 18-month program in July 2007, and 10 are scheduled to start in July 2008.

"The Army needs more emergency-medicine-trained, trauma-trained PAs for the battlefield," says Maj. Leonard Gruppo, MPAS, PA-C, who is the director of postgraduate education for the U.S. Army. "It was difficult for us to ask PAs to go through 18 months of incredibly rigorous, demanding training and then give them a certificate, as was done with our previous 12-month residency upon which this is based, and is done with almost all postgraduate (PA) residencies.

"We wanted to recognize their training and expertise, and there is no other way to do it right now. There is no board certification for advanced (PA) training or specialty certification (for PAs). There's no way to recognize advanced training in a way other people (outside the PA profession) would understand. We feel that the training is doctorate-level. When we compared (the PA doctorate program) to (doctorate programs for) other professions such as pharmacy or physical therapy, it compared favorably. This (PA doctorate training) is even more robust than many other (doctorate) programs."

The Army conceived of a PA clinical doctorate program in 1999 and began development of the initial program in earnest in 2003. The Army plans to convert all of its PA residencies in emergency medicine and orthopedics to doctorate programs, Gruppo says.

In addition to being the appropriate degree for advanced clinical training, these PA clinical doctorate degrees should also be a strong incentive for PAs to remain in the military and possibly for civilian PAs to consider military service, Gruppo says. The Army needs a large number of well-trained and experienced PAs to care for soldiers injured in combat.

"We did a study of Army PAs and two-thirds of the respondents said that the availability of these (doctorate-level PA) programs would significantly affect their decisions to stay on active duty," Gruppo says. "That's a pretty enthusiastic response."

The PA Profession's Reaction
The announcement of this groundbreaking doctoral program has created a furor in a profession that is still having trouble adjusting to a de facto master's-degree standard. Discussion of the Army/Baylor program prompted long, spirited debate at the Physician Assistant Education Association meeting in Tucson in October. PAEA leaders say they will explore the implications of this PA doctorate program on the profession and will invite other groups to participate in the discussions.

"It was a topic of extensive conversation (in Tucson)," PAEA president Anita Glicken, MSW, says. "We want to look at this with representatives of other organizations, with other stakeholders. That will help us look at the meaning for the profession as a whole and the future of PA practice, so we can look at where PA education is going."

The Army/Baylor program isn't necessarily profession-changing by itself, although the development of a clinical doctorate specifically and only for PAs is a unique approach.

But any mention of PA and doctorate in the same breath seems to alarm some segments of the PA profession. For years, there has been preliminary discussion of and substantial anxiety about the possibility of the doctorate becoming the entry-level degree for PAs, just as it has for so many other health professionals, including nurse practitioners, physical therapists, occupational therapists, pharmacists and audiologists.

"People are worried that this may be another step in that direction. I don't think it is. That could very problematic for a number of reasons," says Patricia Kelly, EdD, PA-C, associate professor and director of the Doctor of Health Science program at Nova Southeastern University in Fort Lauderdale, Fla., an academic doctorate degree program that enrolls quite a few PAs and has already graduated about 75 PAs.

But, Kelly adds, "There really isn't another (similar) profession not going in the direction of an entry-level doctoral degree."

Gruppo is aware of the issues surrounding PAs and doctorate degrees, but sees the DScPA program a logical next step in the natural evolution of the PA profession.

"All this does is make a better PA to take care of patients and give PAs a tremendous professional opportunity that has never existed," Gruppo says. "This program is good for everybody concerned. It's good for doctors. It's good for patients. It's good for PAs."

"Our graduates will not call themselves 'Doctor' to avoid confusing patients and out of respect for physicians who remain the gold standard for medical practice, with extensive postdoctoral training and at least twice the medical training of our PAs," Gruppo says. "By associating a doctorate degree with residency training, rather than entry-level training, we avoid direct competition with MD and DO programs and follow more closely the physician training model of medical school, residency and fellowship. It just makes sense, especially considering the marketplace forces that have steadily asked more of PAs."


 

I think it is quite simple. Go to medical school and then you are entitled to the word doctor. The sentiments expressed above are exactly the reason many of my colleagues dislike PA's. I like to think we work together towards the same goal, but my opinion has started to change about DNP's and PA's. You guys are trying to become doctors and unfortunately you do not deserve it.

Adam ,  Medical StudentDecember 12, 2009



The above comments are typical of alot of PA's. Yes, we didn't do the same premed coursework, MCAT, interviews, med school, internship/residency, BUT we're just like doctors. Sorry, if that's the case, it would be a tremendous breakthrough in education. Less education makes you betteer prepared.
No one wants to face the reality that IF you have the brains and the drive and you are interested in medicine, you will go to medical school. If you read the PA blogs, they're all looking for the easy way out. They want the glory, but none of the work.
Sorry, but seeing 50 back injury patients in the ED doesn't mean the 51st patient doesn't have something else going on.
Want to practice medicine? Man up and go to medical school.

Elliott Mosso,  MDDecember 11, 2009
Columbus, OH



As a retired P.A. I agree with the comments that among some MD's there is a big ego and and incredible sense of entitlement that has fueled the high cost of medicine. Sure, they struggle and were worked in their residency programs like cheap slaves. But The World should not have to keep "Paying a Penalty' for the rest of the doctors lives, so they can have their $1/2-million houses, and all the likings of the elite. Sure, they deserve a "decent" above average lifestyle. But when is "enough" really ENOUGH for a Medical Doctor?

It is MORE, more... MORE~ When some have milked it to the max and demand even more... the doc's go 'turn-coats' and turn their back on colleagues and patients... and become pawns for the insurance industry, as Medical Directors. Becoming "Dr. NO!"
works economically... while they peddle their influence to degrade the quality healthcare, to the benefit of "non-profits" like Blue Cross / Blue Shield. (That's a laugh! Right?)

The problem is, among other factors, that doctors are Spoiled. They have gotten their way for so long, catered to.... wielded their power and influence... enjoyed the Bounty of their efforts... without many limitations. They have learned how to "manipulate" The System to a greater advantage. Then, as things tighten, they cry foul.

They feel "robbed" and want to do even LESS to benefit patients, to create or preserve a greater "profit margin" for themselves.

THEY OUGHT TO HAVE TO WALK IN THE SHOES AND FEEL THEY STRESS OF THE ORDINARY AMERICAN OF TODAY, and endure it for a whole month. On the 31st day, they'd be damn glad to put back on their security coat of money, status, and ego. Things most "ordinary" people do not know what it feels like to have.

I knew a neighbor who has hypothyroidism, and no insurance. She took generic levothyroxine. The Rx ran out. Since it has been over a year since a TSH, the doc would not give her a refill or even Synthroid samples to tide her over until she could get funds for the TSH. Rather than renew "the last known appropriate dose" for her... the doc insisted she come in for a TSH. His office quoted $79 for the test cost. She saved and borrowed from kin folks to muster the $79, only to find that she would still be required to come back for the doc to "review" her test results and re-write a prescription. "How much more will that be?" she asked. "Anywhere from $65 to $125, depending on the length of visit!" She was NOT ABLE TO AFFORD that caliber of coercion and "extortion" of sorts.

She ran out of medicine entirely. While she could have afforded the generic med, how in the hell can a doctor be more comfortable with a patient being TOTALLY WITHOUT their medication... than to cut the patient a little slack, and work with them to achieve better care? It is ALL ABOUT GREED, and many docs are selfish and it's an "All-about-Me" attitude.

Would it not have worked for a $65 office fee, renew the generic Rx... and encourage the patient to return for a TSH as soon as funds are AVAILABLE, in order to confirm the correct dosage... or reveal what changes would be indicated?

Hey, how about CHARGING A PATIENT with NO insurance somewhat LESS that $75 for just a TSH? That's one hellova MARK-UP, don't you think? And ANOTHER $65+ to take 15-seconds to look at lab results, and write a script (or ask your Med Asst to call in the Rx!) ???! Even the office nurse can look at results and tell what is what in a TSH results, tell the doc in 10-words or less, and he either says one of three things: "Keep the dose the same" "Increase to ___" - "Decrease to ___." But for all that, the doc feels he is entitled to nearly $150 --- or the patient can just damn RUN OUT of Rx, and he couldn't care less?!! "Entitlement" "Greed." Of course, the patient paying 1/3, or 1/2 the fee, and paying the rest in monthly payments ober six months was out of the question. I mean, "pay due at time services are rendered" -- Right??

Sure, in the ideal world, with affordable insurance co-pays, an annual TSH (among other relevant labs) are done, a physical, etc. You assess the labs, make whatever adjustment in medicine doses that are indicated... and all is well. The doc gets his big bucks or practically no-brainer management a much less staffer could do. And, the patient gets their Rx, and confidence the dose is right for them.

Or, as in the case of my neighbors Doc... if you can't nickle and dime her to death and squeeze excessive funds from her... screw her! Reject her. Let her GO WITHOUT her meds, and allow the symptoms of hypothyroidism escalate. No big deal, right?

Common sense would tell the below average doc, that of you create an impossible situation where a patient has to go off her thyroid meds... IF and when she can afford your "(UN)ethical Protocol" ... a TSH after someone has been of their thyroid meds will be a USELESS expense for the patient. The doc would still likely resume the LAST KNOWN APPROPRIATE DOSE of the med... wait another 3-4 months... THEN, check the TSH again to see if the dose is optimized.

IF THE DOC would handle this, as I just described, WHY WOULD HE NOT BE WILLING to RESUME her dose, and keep her from totally running out? Then, allow her to gather funds for a TSH within the following couple of months of Rx continuation?

But GREED kept the Common Sense and empathetic thing from having a chance.

I have to say, many docs are NOT like this. MY personal physician is not like this. But ENOUGH ARE, that the FACE OF MEDICINE is seen through the eyes of this lady's experience.

Docs have TOO MUCH POWER.

As Consumers, patients are at a greater DISADVANTAGE in protecting themselves, as one would be with a shady used car salesman! You "buy" something without knowing the actual cost, there are no guarantees, if the service is bad or care does not remedy the disorder one entrusted their doc to manage. You can't seek a refund. You have to pay up front. You have little or no control over the length of visit. (We all know, if you have insurance, it gets bumped to the next higher level, if at all believable.)

YES... healthcare Reform is needed. But, every greedy person from one end of the healthcare industry to the other, will be trying to protect their turf.

I have attended many "Health reform" rallies etc. The public is very concerned and worried. But, they DON'T KNOW THE INSIDE SCOOP, like medical people do. IT IS OUR responsibility to guide Reform to a higher ethical level. PA's are crucial for this, as are NP's. There actually needs to be INDEPENDENT PRACTICE allowed for PA's as some FNP's already enjoy.

At least patients would have a CHOICE, of someone who will put their care ahead of money generated. At least more often, than with the typical physician mindset. Sure, PA's would be happy taking care of Medicaid and Medicare patients, the blue collar worker, occupational health needs. Doc's don't want to be 'bothered' by "Ordinary People" with any financial challenges, anyway. And the PA could enjoy some insurance covered patients in the mix for more stability.

Leave many the "goodie-goodie" patients to the elite docs, who will still find something to belly-ache about, if they see themselves maybe HAVING to work past age 55 or 60... or they can't stay at their SAME income levels AFTER retirement, because of the market. "Tough times, awe, Doctors?" Like I said, WALK A MILE in your Ordinary patients shoes? They THEIR DAY-TO-DAY REALITY and concerns be YOURS for a month. They struggle to make ends meet every week. (Not even able to THINK about the value of investments or lucrative RETIREMENT FUNDS, because Ordinary People probably don't have any of these to worry over, like YOU do.) Yep, Mr. Physician, YOU will be GLAD to return to your Privileged "NORM" again. So keep griping how you are struggling.

Your "struggle" just isn't Ordinary enough for most people to give a damn about. You WILL survive. Just keep denying reasonable fees to hardship patients, charge $75 for a TSH that you know is a tiny fraction of that. The rest of the fee, you POCKET at the struggling patient's expense. WHY do you feel it is NECESSARY, to make people endure your lavish mindset. But, you get away with it, because patients can't easily compare cost and fees. If patients were ENPOWERED with insight, the most fair and honest docs would be REWARDED in volume, even through several PA's on staff. The docs that are legally stealing from people, would be exposed, revealed to the public... and the "Buyer Beware!" mantra would prompt people to NOT ALLOW YOU TO EXPLOIT THEM, and you would be forced to cancel Country Club memberships for you and your wifie.

POINT MADE clear.

All in the healing arts have a lot to offer, and our rewards are financial. But we all have been entrusted not to exploit or take advantage of others. These difficult economic times make high ethics essential. Yeah, you struggled in medical school, put up with grouchy nurses which likely kept you from falling out of school. Yeah, you feel like the WORLD OWES YOU financial security for the rest of your life. But, you know what? "GET OVER IT!" You, by nature of your profession, Mr. Physician, do NOT have a license to STEAL. Just to Heal. Your rewards will come. Try treating and charging your Ordinary Patients, in the SAME manner you would hope another physician in another town would treat your most beloved family member. How ORDINARY would you want that doc to treat your more Ordinary kin?

WHY government intervention? No M.D. is going to freely of their own will, lower fees, and make care more accessible and economical. You all are too used to sucking the Nipple dry, to be satisfied with anything less. YOU ARE A HUGE PART OF THE PROBLEM in healthcare, and a prime reason for Reform. BUT, you can be a crucial part of the Solution, if you can diminish your greed, bury your ego, ignore your inflated sense of entitlement. Just be Real, and re-connect with the person you once were, who wanted to use your skills and willingness to help improve the lives of people. Back to the Basics.

Once, the public looked up to the M.D. as a God. One whom had the skill to make the difference between life and death.

Now, because of The Reality that patients know, are so like my neighbor. Who was shunned and denied because there was no immediate exorbitant PAY OFF to the doc. You know, prostitutes won't perform either, unless it is financially worth their time. But, for the right money, they will cater to you.

Healthcare Reform is all about getting away from being controlled by the Almighty Buck, and Get Back to the Basics of HONEST, ETHICAL, FAIR, and competent care.

Docs willing to take the moral and ethical step forward, will be the Survivors of Reform. The rest, will have to prey on the uninformed and take your chances. Get what you can, as it will eventually fizzle you out of the marketplace. Hardly anyone sees you docs as Gods any more. If anything a part of the Ghod darn problem, instead. A big difference you need to acknowledge, and let it humble you a few notches.

Now is a time America HAS to come together in a unity of purpose, to focus on Quality of Care. Not poor-mouth or give less of your insight and skill, because the patient can't afford to leave a tip on the night table.

And Tort Reform? Yes, there's a need to MAKE IT EASIER for patients to detect when you screw up, because you discount the value THEY are entitled to, and you are negligent because you KNOW you can Get Away with It. Some CAPS are needed. But, as consumers, patients are disadvantaged enough. You screw up too bad, you GET screwed. That's justice.

Too bad that the public has no way to ASK A NURSE what doctor SHE or HE WOULD RECOMMEND, and what doc they wouldn't take their DOG to. Nurses HAVE a qualified Opinion, which patients are not privy, and usually see a doctor blindly, because an office is convenient to get to.

When I was dating, there was a social dinner at the home of friends. One who participated was a nurse. We chatted, and she listed local surgeons whom she felt were HORRIBLE. they had more patients DIE, more with post-op infections. Important things beyond bedside manner. Things that impact survival and prognosis. Things patient Consumers never get to hear about.

Yes, Reform is L-O-N-G overdue. Everyone will have some sacrifice to make. It’s about time. And the insurance and pharmaceutical industries ought to take the lead that ACTUALLY can benefit patients.


B. Dotridge,  Ret'd P.A.October 12, 2009



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